Discussion:
EGYPTIANS were BLACK (0/1)
(too old to reply)
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-11 04:14:33 UTC
Permalink
Well, I cannot see your pics, but I know which ones you are talking about.
The Romans had a habit of depicting any peoples in their style of art to
look like Romans. They do show some small clues as to what he was and what
he was not. His hair is curly, an African sign. I saw another Roman
drawing (color) of Hannibal and he had brown skin.

North Africa at that time was (as it still is) a mixture of black and
white-like peoples. Then, it had much more clearly black people. Northwest
ancient Africa seems to be the region hardest to get any powerful
information on, but I did manage to find pics of the Numidian King Juba
(II?) and on one Roman artifact, Juba looks like a Roman white man. On a
coin, he has dreads (yes, I guess it was indeed popular with Africans back
then) and looked clearly African. Some other Numidian coins depict peoples
who look like white people. NW Africa was always a subject of invasion by
whites, but the blackness until this very day is still very strong in one
way or another.
--
This site is something else! www.unclet.netfirms.com
Here's a good example of how niggers attempt to change history to hide
the fact that they are worthless bags of shit that haven't
accomplished anything.
Below is a modern poster of Hannibal depicted as a nigger.
This was being distributed in schools before a Court ordered them to
take them back.
And below is a sculpture of the real Hannibal done during his lifetime
that he modeled for and a coin depicting him that was circulated
during his reign.
Does he look like a nigger to you?
Tom Shelly, White God
The Terrorist Group FC
2003-09-11 04:22:40 UTC
Permalink
"Jason Murray - The Great One" wrote in message ...
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Well, I cannot see your pics, but I know which ones you are talking about.
The Romans had a habit of depicting any peoples in their style of art to
look like Romans. They do show some small clues as to what he was and what
he was not. His hair is curly, an African sign. I saw another Roman
drawing (color) of Hannibal and he had brown skin.
Curly hair is not necessarily African. Many Mediterranean people have
curly hair, it seems to be quite common among Semitic people.

Several years ago Scientific American published a photo of an Egyptian
mural. It clearly depicted brown-skinned overseers watching a group
of black-skinned slaves. There was no question that the figures in
question were black Africans, they even had the facial figures correct.

I will attempt to find the picture online and provide a link so you
can see for yourselves. It essentially proves that the ancient
Egyptians were NOT black, and clearly indicated the status of any
black people who happened to be present in their society.
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-11 04:47:17 UTC
Permalink
This site is something else! www.unclet.netfirms.com
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
"Jason Murray - The Great One" wrote in message ...
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Well, I cannot see your pics, but I know which ones you are talking about.
The Romans had a habit of depicting any peoples in their style of art to
look like Romans. They do show some small clues as to what he was and what
he was not. His hair is curly, an African sign. I saw another Roman
drawing (color) of Hannibal and he had brown skin.
Curly hair is not necessarily African.
Name ANY, ANY tribe or nation of people outside of Africa and NOT having any
balck blood in them having curly hair across the board! You can't becuase
there are none. There are none because curly hair is an African trait, like
blond hair is a European trait. We have been lead to believe that curly
haired whites just have cute curly hair and we never ask ourselves (some of
us do, but dismiss it because you firgure they are white) "how did whites
get curly hair?"

We (you) always see the white in blacks when their hair color or texture is
different from what you say an African's should be like. I saw a mixed girl
toady. She had a daughter who's father had to have been white becuase the
little girl looked as white as a white couples white kid. The point? You
never know who's got it in them when it does not readily show.

Many Mediterranean people have
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
curly hair,
I already explained how any people who are considered non-African by
American whites got curly hair. There is NO SUCH thing as "Mediterranean
people," that was made up just to explain away why you have whites in N.
Africa and peoples with non-European and African looks in Southern Europe.
All of those peoples are mixed, period. Mediterranean people...

it seems to be quite common among Semitic people.

There IS NO SUCH thing as Semetic people. They are mixed. Curly hair is
common in some areas, very straight is common in others. Where whites have
invaded, red and blond hairs are common. I can go on and on. Sometimes you
have to use common sense when reviewing (neutral) histories. That is what
historians do.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
Several years ago Scientific American published a photo of an Egyptian
mural. It clearly depicted brown-skinned
That happens to be the color of Africans and African-Americans... That is
what you expect to find in Africa.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
overseers
Very subjective and your own words.

watching a group
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
of black-skinned slaves.
Yes. Black skinned. That is what is found in that part of Africa, the
Sahara. The browning came when whites and white-styled peoples came in and
mixed with the then jet black natives. That is why they were dark brown and
brown and sometimes lighter - mixing. You do see that same result with
African-Americans don't you? The Hutu's and the Tutsi's were slightly
different complexions and had different facials features, but no one says
that they were not both African and black. I know the Europeans tried to
say otherwise, but they have changed that.

There was no question that the figures in
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
question were black Africans, they even had the facial figures correct.
They were only in question by you. You are right, all of them were indeed
black Africans. If you saw ALL of them in front of you face, the brown
skinned ones you would see as your normal black man on the street. The
black skinned ones you would see as foregin and African becuase you are not
used to them. Funny, some black people in certain countries can be brown,
tan, yellow, cream or white, but other who are dark-brown, brown and black
are Arab, Semites or anything but African or black becuase of their
country's history.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
I will attempt to find the picture online and provide a link so you
can see for yourselves. It essentially proves that the ancient
Egyptians were NOT black, and clearly indicated the status of any
black people who happened to be present in their society.
One picture for 3,000 years? Very conclusive and scientific. You stand
next to any in the pic and see if all of them are not black. Walk in Harlem
next all in the pic and see if you do not panic.
Blue Men of Morocco
2003-09-12 16:05:14 UTC
Permalink
Not sure if I should get into this discussion. Apologies if I am out of
place. If is my understanding that the indigenous Berbers in present day
Morocco ( and other nearby countries originally came from Europe and were
white. Perhaps near Rumania area... I know many in the south western part
of Morocco in the Sahara are still white ( I spend a lot of time there and
have close Berber friends.) Of course, many have dark tans from exposure to
the sun, others are mixed with slaves from sub-Sahara Africa and many
Arabs are quite dark. Many of the Souss Berbers near Agadir are black. I
am guessing that the African slaves intermarried with both Berbers and Arabs
for a diverse culture with various shades of color. I know the ones in the
desert I am familiar with tend not to stray too far for marriage partners
and it is a tribal thing to intermarriage still today.
--
Elena
Come Travel Morocco with Us!!
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
This site is something else! www.unclet.netfirms.com
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
"Jason Murray - The Great One" wrote in message ...
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Well, I cannot see your pics, but I know which ones you are talking
about.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
The Romans had a habit of depicting any peoples in their style of art to
look like Romans. They do show some small clues as to what he was and
what
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
he was not. His hair is curly, an African sign. I saw another Roman
drawing (color) of Hannibal and he had brown skin.
Curly hair is not necessarily African.
Name ANY, ANY tribe or nation of people outside of Africa and NOT having any
balck blood in them having curly hair across the board! You can't becuase
there are none. There are none because curly hair is an African trait, like
blond hair is a European trait. We have been lead to believe that curly
haired whites just have cute curly hair and we never ask ourselves (some of
us do, but dismiss it because you firgure they are white) "how did whites
get curly hair?"
We (you) always see the white in blacks when their hair color or texture is
different from what you say an African's should be like. I saw a mixed girl
toady. She had a daughter who's father had to have been white becuase the
little girl looked as white as a white couples white kid. The point? You
never know who's got it in them when it does not readily show.
Many Mediterranean people have
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
curly hair,
I already explained how any people who are considered non-African by
American whites got curly hair. There is NO SUCH thing as "Mediterranean
people," that was made up just to explain away why you have whites in N.
Africa and peoples with non-European and African looks in Southern Europe.
All of those peoples are mixed, period. Mediterranean people...
it seems to be quite common among Semitic people.
There IS NO SUCH thing as Semetic people. They are mixed. Curly hair is
common in some areas, very straight is common in others. Where whites have
invaded, red and blond hairs are common. I can go on and on. Sometimes you
have to use common sense when reviewing (neutral) histories. That is what
historians do.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
Several years ago Scientific American published a photo of an Egyptian
mural. It clearly depicted brown-skinned
That happens to be the color of Africans and African-Americans... That is
what you expect to find in Africa.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
overseers
Very subjective and your own words.
watching a group
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
of black-skinned slaves.
Yes. Black skinned. That is what is found in that part of Africa, the
Sahara. The browning came when whites and white-styled peoples came in and
mixed with the then jet black natives. That is why they were dark brown and
brown and sometimes lighter - mixing. You do see that same result with
African-Americans don't you? The Hutu's and the Tutsi's were slightly
different complexions and had different facials features, but no one says
that they were not both African and black. I know the Europeans tried to
say otherwise, but they have changed that.
There was no question that the figures in
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
question were black Africans, they even had the facial figures correct.
They were only in question by you. You are right, all of them were indeed
black Africans. If you saw ALL of them in front of you face, the brown
skinned ones you would see as your normal black man on the street. The
black skinned ones you would see as foregin and African becuase you are not
used to them. Funny, some black people in certain countries can be brown,
tan, yellow, cream or white, but other who are dark-brown, brown and black
are Arab, Semites or anything but African or black becuase of their
country's history.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
I will attempt to find the picture online and provide a link so you
can see for yourselves. It essentially proves that the ancient
Egyptians were NOT black, and clearly indicated the status of any
black people who happened to be present in their society.
One picture for 3,000 years? Very conclusive and scientific. You stand
next to any in the pic and see if all of them are not black. Walk in Harlem
next all in the pic and see if you do not panic.
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-12 18:16:57 UTC
Permalink
Not all of the Africans (real) in the false region of "sub-Saharan" Africa
were slaves. They were not brought up north by Berbers or so-called Arabs.
They were they, mixed with whites and some were taken as slaves. They were
surly dominated by whites from different parts. The present population in
Morocco is a mulatto one.

I have done extensive research on these Berbers. While whites are steady
trying to prove how white clearly black Egyptians were, they say next to
nothing about a people who were supposed to have truly been of white
origins. I cannot get clear pics on ancient Libyans, but from what I have
seen as painted by ancient Egyptians, they were of an Asiatic type. The
white man's reproduction of that painting shows them with white skin and
brown hair, a clear exaggeration. Another rock painting from about 4,000
years ago shows white skinned Libyans. Another rock painting from about
10,000(?) years ago in Algeria shows the clearly jet black Africans of the
type in Southern Sudan. Maybe their might be something the actual model of
black man who had changed with interactions with white types. That is the
same thing that has happened all over the world. The only thing is, some
sources say that ancient Libyans were from Asia, while they say that Greeks
settled in parts of Libya and Tunisia. If so, were these white Greeks of
the black type of the Minoan period? Maybe both? Whatever the case, Africa
is more complex than many people realize. They call Nelson Mandela black?
--
This site is something else! www.unclet.netfirms.com
Post by Blue Men of Morocco
Not sure if I should get into this discussion. Apologies if I am out of
place. If is my understanding that the indigenous Berbers in present day
Morocco ( and other nearby countries originally came from Europe and were
white. Perhaps near Rumania area... I know many in the south western part
of Morocco in the Sahara are still white ( I spend a lot of time there and
have close Berber friends.) Of course, many have dark tans from exposure to
the sun, others are mixed with slaves from sub-Sahara Africa and many
Arabs are quite dark. Many of the Souss Berbers near Agadir are black. I
am guessing that the African slaves intermarried with both Berbers and Arabs
for a diverse culture with various shades of color. I know the ones in the
desert I am familiar with tend not to stray too far for marriage partners
and it is a tribal thing to intermarriage still today.
--
Elena
Come Travel Morocco with Us!!
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
This site is something else! www.unclet.netfirms.com
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
"Jason Murray - The Great One" wrote in message ...
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Well, I cannot see your pics, but I know which ones you are talking
about.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
The Romans had a habit of depicting any peoples in their style of art
to
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
look like Romans. They do show some small clues as to what he was and
what
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
he was not. His hair is curly, an African sign. I saw another Roman
drawing (color) of Hannibal and he had brown skin.
Curly hair is not necessarily African.
Name ANY, ANY tribe or nation of people outside of Africa and NOT having
any
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
balck blood in them having curly hair across the board! You can't becuase
there are none. There are none because curly hair is an African trait,
like
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
blond hair is a European trait. We have been lead to believe that curly
haired whites just have cute curly hair and we never ask ourselves (some
of
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
us do, but dismiss it because you firgure they are white) "how did whites
get curly hair?"
We (you) always see the white in blacks when their hair color or texture
is
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
different from what you say an African's should be like. I saw a mixed
girl
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
toady. She had a daughter who's father had to have been white becuase the
little girl looked as white as a white couples white kid. The point?
You
Post by Blue Men of Morocco
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
never know who's got it in them when it does not readily show.
Many Mediterranean people have
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
curly hair,
I already explained how any people who are considered non-African by
American whites got curly hair. There is NO SUCH thing as
"Mediterranean
Post by Blue Men of Morocco
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
people," that was made up just to explain away why you have whites in N.
Africa and peoples with non-European and African looks in Southern Europe.
All of those peoples are mixed, period. Mediterranean people...
it seems to be quite common among Semitic people.
There IS NO SUCH thing as Semetic people. They are mixed. Curly hair is
common in some areas, very straight is common in others. Where whites
have
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
invaded, red and blond hairs are common. I can go on and on. Sometimes
you
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
have to use common sense when reviewing (neutral) histories. That is what
historians do.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
Several years ago Scientific American published a photo of an Egyptian
mural. It clearly depicted brown-skinned
That happens to be the color of Africans and African-Americans... That is
what you expect to find in Africa.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
overseers
Very subjective and your own words.
watching a group
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
of black-skinned slaves.
Yes. Black skinned. That is what is found in that part of Africa, the
Sahara. The browning came when whites and white-styled peoples came in
and
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
mixed with the then jet black natives. That is why they were dark brown
and
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
brown and sometimes lighter - mixing. You do see that same result with
African-Americans don't you? The Hutu's and the Tutsi's were slightly
different complexions and had different facials features, but no one says
that they were not both African and black. I know the Europeans tried to
say otherwise, but they have changed that.
There was no question that the figures in
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
question were black Africans, they even had the facial figures correct.
They were only in question by you. You are right, all of them were indeed
black Africans. If you saw ALL of them in front of you face, the brown
skinned ones you would see as your normal black man on the street. The
black skinned ones you would see as foregin and African becuase you are
not
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
used to them. Funny, some black people in certain countries can be brown,
tan, yellow, cream or white, but other who are dark-brown, brown and black
are Arab, Semites or anything but African or black becuase of their
country's history.
Post by The Terrorist Group FC
I will attempt to find the picture online and provide a link so you
can see for yourselves. It essentially proves that the ancient
Egyptians were NOT black, and clearly indicated the status of any
black people who happened to be present in their society.
One picture for 3,000 years? Very conclusive and scientific. You stand
next to any in the pic and see if all of them are not black. Walk in
Harlem
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
next all in the pic and see if you do not panic.
Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
2003-09-14 01:46:30 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:16:57 GMT, "Jason Murray - The Great One"
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
While whites are steady
trying to prove how white clearly black Egyptians were, they say next to
nothing about a people who were supposed to have truly been of white
origins.
Meanwhile, you say next to nothing about the fact that niggers weren't
Egyptians, nor were they even Nubians:

NUBIANS (a.k.a. Cushites)

Nubia, or Cush, is an ancient region of North Africa comprising
modern-day Southern Egypt and the Northern parts of Sudan and
Ethiopia. All of the cultures from that region, including Upper Egypt,
the Kingdom of Da’amat and the Aksum Empire, were created
by people who spoke Afro-Asiatic languages, that is, Hamito-Semitic,
Caucasoid people, not blacks: "The Hamitic subfamily is
generally considered to include ancient Egyptian and its descendant,
Coptic; the Berber languages; and the Cushitic languages."
(The Columbia Encyclopedia: Sixth Edition, Hamito-Semitic languages)

An article from Encyclopedia Britannica called History of Ethiopia
reiterates this linguistic connection between Nubia and the
Mediterranean, and elaborates on its cultural extentions with regard
to the various kingdoms mentioned above :

"...an ancient tongue spoken in this region [Nubia] fissured into
the modern languages of the Afro-Asiatic (formerly
Hamito-Semitic) family. This family includes the Cushitic and
Semitic languages now spoken in Ethiopia."

"During the 2nd millennium BC...a people speaking Ge'ez (a
Semitic language) came to dominate the rich northern
highlands of Tigray. There, in the 7th century BC, they
established the kingdom of Da'amat."

"Aksum's culture comprised Ge'ez, written in a modified South
Arabian alphabet, sculpture and architecture based on
South Arabian prototypes, and an amalgam of local and Middle
Eastern dieties. Thus, evidence exists of a close
cultural exchange between Aksum and the Arabian peninsula...."

Certainly Nubians must have come into contact with black Africans to
the south, especially with the expansion of Aksum, and no
doubt even incorporated them into their societies, as much of their
art suggests, but the original Nubians themselves were
Caucasian.




ORIENTAL INSTITUTE MUSEUM

NUBIA - "Its glory and its people"

1987 EXHIBITION: BROCHURE



FEBRUARY 1 thru 28, 1987

Presented by:
THE ORIENTAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
and the OAK WOODS CEMETERY ASSOCIATION
In the Tower of Memories, Oak Woods Cemetery,
Chicago





By BRUCE WILLIAMS, Research Associate



Exhibition Brochure Cover

Exhibition Credits

Exhibition Introduction

To the ancient Mediterranean world, the land south of Egypt was a
territory of mystery and legend. Wealth and exotic products
came from there. It was the home of the Ethiopians, whom Homer called
blameless and stories about its great achievements
endured to tantalize the modern world. This land, which now includes
Nubia, is a land of enormous distances, and its
exploration was long impeded by problems of transport and political
unrest. In the last hundred years, Nubia has slowly yielded
its secrets, its vanished peoples, abandoned cities and lost kingdoms
brought to light by the excavator and copyist of
inscriptions. This exhibit is a selection of objects recovered over
twenty years ago by the Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition in
the effort to rescue archaeology from the rising water behind the
Aswan Dam.

The land of Nubia is a desert divided by the river Nile. For want of
water and rich soil, most of Nubia has never been able to
support a large population for long periods. However, some of Africa's
greatest civilizations emerged here, centers of
achievement whose existence was based on industry and trade. Because
they did not write their own languages until very late in
ancient times, we know these centers and their people largely through
their archaeology and what the Egyptians and Greeks
said about them.

An Early Kingdom in the Land of the Bow:

The A-Group,

3800-3100 B.C.

The first continuous agricultural tradition in Africa, the
Sudanese-Saharan Neolithic, developed almost ten thousand years ago
in country west of Nubia that is now desert.

The Nile Valley in Egypt had been inhospitable, but in the seasonally
dry channels of the Second Cataract, early farmers
learned to manage parts of the river's annual flood. This knowledge
could then be applied in Egypt's wide floodplain, giving rise
to the great sequence of Upper Egypt's early civilizations.

Upper Egypt soon grew wealthy and its culture expanded again into
Nubia, where renewed southern contacts gave rise to the
first of Nubia's trading cultures, called the A-Group. Incense,
copper, gold, objects of shell, and semiprecious stones were
traded northward in return for manufactured articles and probably
agricultural produce.

Most surprising, evidence that early pharaohs ruled in A-Group Nubia
was discovered by the Oriental Institute at Qustul,
almost at the modern Sudanese border. A cemetery of large tombs
contained evidence of wealth and representations of the
rulers and their victories. Other representations and monuments could
then be identified, and in the process, a lost kingdom,
called Ta-Seti or Land of the Bow, was discovered. In fact, the
cemetery at Qustul leads directly to the first great royal
monuments of Egypt in a progression. Qustul in Nubia could well have
been the seat of Egypt's founding dynasty.

Figure 1: The decoration of the Qustul Incense Burner, as restored. A
sacrificial procession contains the earliest definite image
of a pharaoh with his crown and falcon-label. Oriental Institute
Nubian Expedition.

The Land of Wawat: C-Group Lower Nubia,

2300-1550 B.C.

Life in Nubia between 3100 and about 2300 B. C. differed greatly from
the prosperous times of A-Group. We know of only a
few inhabitants and one substantial town, where copper was smelted for
export.

About 2300 B.C., during the Egyptian Sixth Dynasty, a new culture
appeared, which archaeologists call C-Group. Cattle
played an important role in this culture, as they have in many other
African societies since. Nevertheless, the C-Group was
settled permanently along the Nile, from Aswan to the Second Cataract,
and a closely related culture was established in
northern Sudan, especially at Kerma, south of the Third Cataract. As
Egypt fragmented politically, C-Group people entered the
country to the north, as herdsmen and soldiers. They sometimes rose
very high in Egyptian society and they played an important
role in the struggles that founded the Egyptian Middle Kingdom, about
2050 B.C.

Figure 2: One of the finest C-Group incised bowls is decorated with a
herd of cattle. Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition.

From biographies of Egyptian governors at Aswan, about 2300 B. C., we
learn that the peoples to the south were
concentrated in four principalities. One, Wawat, later gave its name
to all of Lower Nubia, the land between the First and the
Second Cataracts. Another, Yam, may have been a predecessor of Kush.
In the Egyptian period of disunity, about 2250 B.
C., Lower Nubia had its own pharaohs.

C-Group is well known for its tightly packed cemeteries of high stone
circles. Next to these circles were placed stelae, some
with pictures of cattle incised on them, and pottery, some of Nubia's
finest art. Three major cemeteries and a house of this
culture were excavated by the Oriental Institute at Adindan and Serra
East.

Kerma and the Rise of Kush,

ca. 2000-1550 B. C.

Egypt conquered Lower Nubia about 1950 B. C., and retained it until
about 1700. C-Group kept its cultural identity under
Egyptian rule, but the land of Kush to the south and the Medjay people
of the Eastern Desert remained independent. Kush,
much influenced by the Medjay, became a major power in the south, and
as Egypt fell into disunity again, about 1700 B. C.,
Kush took over Lower Nubia with its C-Group population and Egyptian
garrisons. The allegiance of people and soldiers was
transferred to the southern ruler who was represented as a pharaoh.

Most archaeology of the Kerma culture or early Kush is found south of
the Second Cataract, especially at the great capital at
Kerma, with its central temples, elaborate smelter, manufacturing
installations, houses and enormous royal mound tombs. Its
magnificent pottery was sometimes exported as far north as the
Egyptian Delta, and sometimes carried north by travelling
officials and soldiers.

The Ages of Egyptian Occupation

The Middle Kingdom,
1950-1700 B. C.
The New Kingdom,
1550-1 100 B.C.

The two periods of Egyptian rule in Nubia were quite different. In the
Middle Kingdom, Egyptian garrisons occupied fortresses
and the native C-Group peoples were not profoundly changed by the
imperial occupation.

Figure 3: Ruins of the temple of Soleb, one of New Kingdom Nubia's
greatest monuments. Photo by Breasted.

After the terrible struggles that ended Egypt's Second Intermediate
Period, objects and many local customs became practically
indistinguishable from those of Egypt. Much that underlay the
tremendous elaboration of Egypt must have been present long
before in Nubia, for the rapid, sympathetic, and understanding
adoption of Egyptian culture in Nubia is unique in the ancient
world. Egypt invested heavily in this change, building numerous temple
complexes such as Abu Simbel that were at once
centers of religion, culture, politics, and economy. In later
centuries, this investment bore fruit as Nubia championed the
pharaonic faith against forces of disruption, conquest and foreign
rule in the Nile Valley again and again.

Figure 4: The view looking south from Abu Simbel, great rock-cut
temple of Ramesses II, before it was moved. Photo by
Breasted.

The Empire of Kush

Between 1100 and 750 B.C., little is known of Nubia, but after 750, a
new Kushite kingdom appeared at Napata near the
Fourth Cataract and rapidly expanded into a huge empire. To the south,
Meroe was founded. To the north, Egypt had fallen
into fragments under Libyan rulers, and the Kushites extended their
control north of Thebes, the cult center of the god Amun in
Egypt, who was also the most favored deity of Kush. Piye, most famous
of Kush's pharaohs, united the Nile Valley from the
Mediterranean to Meroe, creating one of Africa's greatest states. He
and his successors are known as Egypt's Twenty-fifth
Dynasty. One, Taharqo, was a great builder, and the Kushite rulers led
Egypt to its last age of outstanding achievement, which
reached its peak in the sixth century B.C. But when Kush tried to stop
the westward advance of Assyria in Asia, Taharqo and
his successor Tanutamani were defeated and expelled from Egypt by 650
B.C. In Nubia and Sudan, Kush continued to be a
major state for a thousand years.

Meroitic Nubia,

ca. 200 B.C.- A.D. 300

The actual capital of Kush was established at Meroe quite early even
though its rulers built pyramids near Napata until about
300 B.C. Meroe became a great city of large industrial complexes and
great temples, with an inner city that contained palaces,
a shrine with a large pool and columns that spouted water, and even an
observatory. Numerous important centers were
founded in the Isle of Meroe, and great temple complexes dedicated to
gods with both Egyptian and Meroitic names. The most
important Meroitic deity was Apedemak, usually shown with a lion's
head, who became one of the greatest state gods. The
outstanding Meroitic industry known to us is iron. The site of Meroe
still contains large heaps of slag, and recent excavations
have unearthed parts of the furnaces used to smelt the metal.

Figure 5: Decoration from a ring-bezel shows the Meroitic lion god
Apedemak. Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition.

In the north, Meroitic policy had been to assist revolts in Upper
Egypt against foreign rulers, such as Persians, the Macedonian
Ptolemies, and Romans. After an agreement with Rome just after 23
B.C., Meroitic settlers were able to live close to Aswan,
beginning a new era of prosperity in Lower Nubia. Wealth derived from
trade made possible some of Nubia's most delightful
achievements in arts and crafts. The culture, like that of Kush's main
center at Meroe, was pharaonic, and the representations
on pottery and small objects were made in accordance with the what was
considered proper in that tradition. These Meroites
of Lower Nubia also constructed small brick pyramids, and equipped
their chapels with stone sculptures and inscribed
monuments.

X-Group Nubia

The Blemmyes, ca A.D. 250-500

The Noubadian Kingdom,

ca. A.D. 350-550

With the Roman world in turmoil, and Meroe in decline, a people from
east of the Nile known to the Greeks as Blemmyes and
to the Arabs as Bedja, rapidly overran much of Egypt and Lower Nubia.
Although expelled from Egypt, they were able to
establish themselves in the region of Nubia just south of Aswan.
Although they continued the religion of the pharaohs, their
rulers used the Greek forms of contemporary Roman Imperial titles. The
Oriental Institute excavated near Kalabsha and
recovered many fragments of decoration from one of the Blemmyes' most
important holy places, as well as pieces of their
unusual and beautiful pottery.

Figure 6: A beautifully carved sandstone incense burner found near the
main shrine of the Blemmyes has alternating lotus
flowers and buds in carved relief, a symbol of creation. Oriental
Institute Nubian Expedition.

South of the Blemmyes, the Meroitic province of Lower Nubia collapsed
by about A. D. 300, and by 375, the kingdom of the
Noubades, now known as Nubians was established with its capital near
the modern Sudanese Border. Great mound-tombs of
its kings at Qustul and Ballana contained much wealth, in crowns,
jewels, and great weapons, including long African
spear-swords, now in the Cairo Museum. The Oriental Institute's own
excavations there discovered that the tumuli themselves
were only part of larger complexes of chapels and sacrificial pits.
Like the Meroitic rulers they supplanted, the Noubadians
used pharaonic symbols and worshipped ancient gods. They joined with
the Blemmyes in attacks on Upper Egypt in defense of
the old religion against the newly dominant Christianity.

Christian Nubia, ca. A.D. 550-1400

Nubia first became Christian in the time of the Roman emperor
Justinian, but soon after, the Moslem Arabs conquered Egypt,
and the Nubians were isolated from direct contact with the Christian
world north of the Mediterranean. Early attempts at
Moslem conquest in Nubia failed, allowing various Christian kingdoms
of Nubia to remain independent for centuries, and they
even had a profitable treaty arrangement with the Caliph. At times,
Christian Nubia became quite powerful and was able to
intervene on behalf of the Coptic Christians in Egypt and even to hold
territory. In the twelfth century, under Saladin, and later,
under the Mamelukes, the power of Christian Nubia was broken by a
series of campaigns and invasions of Arab tribes. By
1400, Christian Nubia had disappeared. Nubians are now virtually all
Moslem.

Figure 7: Jar fragments from the later Christian Period that were
painted in black with intricate geometric designs. Oriental
Institute Nubian Expedition.

The conversion to Christianity was a major stimulus to cultural
achievement. Christianity required churches, written texts, in
Greek, Egyptian Coptic and in Old Nubian, as well as educational and
inspirational decoration. The Christian images and
symbols were drawn largely from traditions developed in Egypt and the
Mediterranean world, but Nubian artists and architects
added details, designs, combinations, and proportions of their own to
establish a unique formal art. Some of the greatest
paintings of the Middle Ages were made on the walls of the Cathedral
at Faras and rescued by a Polish expedition for the
Museums of Khartoum and Warsaw. The Oriental Institute excavated a
major monastery at Qasr el Wizz, and a large town at
Serra East, which contained churches with frescoes that could be
copied, but were too damaged to remove. Much architectural
information was recovered, along with objects from daily life,
including superbly painted pottery which was, as so often before,
the glory of Nubia.





RETURN TO NUBIAN EXPEDITION

RETURN TO ORIENTAL INSTITUTE MUSEUM


Revised: June 2, 1998


http://www.oi.uchicago.edu/OI/PROJ/NUB/NUBX/NUBX_brochure.html
Blue Men of Morocco
2003-09-15 20:36:38 UTC
Permalink
As I mentioned earlier, I would try to track down what I had been told about
the origins of the Berbers (coming from Europe)-
this is what my source emailed me"......I had read in one of the five or six
books that we had purchased on Morocco before our trip that stated that
there were no historical records indicating where the Berbers had
originated. However, a geneticist had completed a significant amount of
research indicating a genetic link with people of the Caucasus, a mountain
range in Southwestern Russia (actually considered to be Southeastern
European Russia, per Webster's Dictionary). The people that originated from
the Caucasus are known as Caucasian, an ethnic division that covers everyone
from India (I think) to Western/Northern Europe. Unfortunately I don't
have any of the books left......."

Perhaps someone has more information from the mentioned source,.

E. Elena Hall, Co
Director Blue Men of Morocco Co.
Visit us in Morocco! http://www.bluemenofmorocco.com
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:16:57 GMT, "Jason Murray - The Great One"
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
While whites are steady
trying to prove how white clearly black Egyptians were, they say next to
nothing about a people who were supposed to have truly been of white
origins.
Meanwhile, you say next to nothing about the fact that niggers weren't
NUBIANS (a.k.a. Cushites)
Nubia, or Cush, is an ancient region of North Africa comprising
modern-day Southern Egypt and the Northern parts of Sudan and
Ethiopia. All of the cultures from that region, including Upper Egypt,
the Kingdom of Da'amat and the Aksum Empire, were created
by people who spoke Afro-Asiatic languages, that is, Hamito-Semitic,
Caucasoid people, not blacks: "The Hamitic subfamily is
generally considered to include ancient Egyptian and its descendant,
Coptic; the Berber languages; and the Cushitic languages."
(The Columbia Encyclopedia: Sixth Edition, Hamito-Semitic languages)
An article from Encyclopedia Britannica called History of Ethiopia
reiterates this linguistic connection between Nubia and the
Mediterranean, and elaborates on its cultural extentions with regard
"...an ancient tongue spoken in this region [Nubia] fissured into
the modern languages of the Afro-Asiatic (formerly
Hamito-Semitic) family. This family includes the Cushitic and
Semitic languages now spoken in Ethiopia."
"During the 2nd millennium BC...a people speaking Ge'ez (a
Semitic language) came to dominate the rich northern
highlands of Tigray. There, in the 7th century BC, they
established the kingdom of Da'amat."
"Aksum's culture comprised Ge'ez, written in a modified South
Arabian alphabet, sculpture and architecture based on
South Arabian prototypes, and an amalgam of local and Middle
Eastern dieties. Thus, evidence exists of a close
cultural exchange between Aksum and the Arabian peninsula...."
Certainly Nubians must have come into contact with black Africans to
the south, especially with the expansion of Aksum, and no
doubt even incorporated them into their societies, as much of their
art suggests, but the original Nubians themselves were
Caucasian.
ORIENTAL INSTITUTE MUSEUM
NUBIA - "Its glory and its people"
1987 EXHIBITION: BROCHURE
FEBRUARY 1 thru 28, 1987
THE ORIENTAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
and the OAK WOODS CEMETERY ASSOCIATION
In the Tower of Memories, Oak Woods Cemetery,
Chicago
By BRUCE WILLIAMS, Research Associate
Exhibition Brochure Cover
Exhibition Credits
Exhibition Introduction
To the ancient Mediterranean world, the land south of Egypt was a
territory of mystery and legend. Wealth and exotic products
came from there. It was the home of the Ethiopians, whom Homer called
blameless and stories about its great achievements
endured to tantalize the modern world. This land, which now includes
Nubia, is a land of enormous distances, and its
exploration was long impeded by problems of transport and political
unrest. In the last hundred years, Nubia has slowly yielded
its secrets, its vanished peoples, abandoned cities and lost kingdoms
brought to light by the excavator and copyist of
inscriptions. This exhibit is a selection of objects recovered over
twenty years ago by the Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition in
the effort to rescue archaeology from the rising water behind the
Aswan Dam.
The land of Nubia is a desert divided by the river Nile. For want of
water and rich soil, most of Nubia has never been able to
support a large population for long periods. However, some of Africa's
greatest civilizations emerged here, centers of
achievement whose existence was based on industry and trade. Because
they did not write their own languages until very late in
ancient times, we know these centers and their people largely through
their archaeology and what the Egyptians and Greeks
said about them.
The A-Group,
3800-3100 B.C.
The first continuous agricultural tradition in Africa, the
Sudanese-Saharan Neolithic, developed almost ten thousand years ago
in country west of Nubia that is now desert.
The Nile Valley in Egypt had been inhospitable, but in the seasonally
dry channels of the Second Cataract, early farmers
learned to manage parts of the river's annual flood. This knowledge
could then be applied in Egypt's wide floodplain, giving rise
to the great sequence of Upper Egypt's early civilizations.
Upper Egypt soon grew wealthy and its culture expanded again into
Nubia, where renewed southern contacts gave rise to the
first of Nubia's trading cultures, called the A-Group. Incense,
copper, gold, objects of shell, and semiprecious stones were
traded northward in return for manufactured articles and probably
agricultural produce.
Most surprising, evidence that early pharaohs ruled in A-Group Nubia
was discovered by the Oriental Institute at Qustul,
almost at the modern Sudanese border. A cemetery of large tombs
contained evidence of wealth and representations of the
rulers and their victories. Other representations and monuments could
then be identified, and in the process, a lost kingdom,
called Ta-Seti or Land of the Bow, was discovered. In fact, the
cemetery at Qustul leads directly to the first great royal
monuments of Egypt in a progression. Qustul in Nubia could well have
been the seat of Egypt's founding dynasty.
Figure 1: The decoration of the Qustul Incense Burner, as restored. A
sacrificial procession contains the earliest definite image
of a pharaoh with his crown and falcon-label. Oriental Institute
Nubian Expedition.
The Land of Wawat: C-Group Lower Nubia,
2300-1550 B.C.
Life in Nubia between 3100 and about 2300 B. C. differed greatly from
the prosperous times of A-Group. We know of only a
few inhabitants and one substantial town, where copper was smelted for
export.
About 2300 B.C., during the Egyptian Sixth Dynasty, a new culture
appeared, which archaeologists call C-Group. Cattle
played an important role in this culture, as they have in many other
African societies since. Nevertheless, the C-Group was
settled permanently along the Nile, from Aswan to the Second Cataract,
and a closely related culture was established in
northern Sudan, especially at Kerma, south of the Third Cataract. As
Egypt fragmented politically, C-Group people entered the
country to the north, as herdsmen and soldiers. They sometimes rose
very high in Egyptian society and they played an important
role in the struggles that founded the Egyptian Middle Kingdom, about
2050 B.C.
Figure 2: One of the finest C-Group incised bowls is decorated with a
herd of cattle. Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition.
From biographies of Egyptian governors at Aswan, about 2300 B. C., we
learn that the peoples to the south were
concentrated in four principalities. One, Wawat, later gave its name
to all of Lower Nubia, the land between the First and the
Second Cataracts. Another, Yam, may have been a predecessor of Kush.
In the Egyptian period of disunity, about 2250 B.
C., Lower Nubia had its own pharaohs.
C-Group is well known for its tightly packed cemeteries of high stone
circles. Next to these circles were placed stelae, some
with pictures of cattle incised on them, and pottery, some of Nubia's
finest art. Three major cemeteries and a house of this
culture were excavated by the Oriental Institute at Adindan and Serra
East.
Kerma and the Rise of Kush,
ca. 2000-1550 B. C.
Egypt conquered Lower Nubia about 1950 B. C., and retained it until
about 1700. C-Group kept its cultural identity under
Egyptian rule, but the land of Kush to the south and the Medjay people
of the Eastern Desert remained independent. Kush,
much influenced by the Medjay, became a major power in the south, and
as Egypt fell into disunity again, about 1700 B. C.,
Kush took over Lower Nubia with its C-Group population and Egyptian
garrisons. The allegiance of people and soldiers was
transferred to the southern ruler who was represented as a pharaoh.
Most archaeology of the Kerma culture or early Kush is found south of
the Second Cataract, especially at the great capital at
Kerma, with its central temples, elaborate smelter, manufacturing
installations, houses and enormous royal mound tombs. Its
magnificent pottery was sometimes exported as far north as the
Egyptian Delta, and sometimes carried north by travelling
officials and soldiers.
The Ages of Egyptian Occupation
The Middle Kingdom,
1950-1700 B. C.
The New Kingdom,
1550-1 100 B.C.
The two periods of Egyptian rule in Nubia were quite different. In the
Middle Kingdom, Egyptian garrisons occupied fortresses
and the native C-Group peoples were not profoundly changed by the
imperial occupation.
Figure 3: Ruins of the temple of Soleb, one of New Kingdom Nubia's
greatest monuments. Photo by Breasted.
After the terrible struggles that ended Egypt's Second Intermediate
Period, objects and many local customs became practically
indistinguishable from those of Egypt. Much that underlay the
tremendous elaboration of Egypt must have been present long
before in Nubia, for the rapid, sympathetic, and understanding
adoption of Egyptian culture in Nubia is unique in the ancient
world. Egypt invested heavily in this change, building numerous temple
complexes such as Abu Simbel that were at once
centers of religion, culture, politics, and economy. In later
centuries, this investment bore fruit as Nubia championed the
pharaonic faith against forces of disruption, conquest and foreign
rule in the Nile Valley again and again.
Figure 4: The view looking south from Abu Simbel, great rock-cut
temple of Ramesses II, before it was moved. Photo by
Breasted.
The Empire of Kush
Between 1100 and 750 B.C., little is known of Nubia, but after 750, a
new Kushite kingdom appeared at Napata near the
Fourth Cataract and rapidly expanded into a huge empire. To the south,
Meroe was founded. To the north, Egypt had fallen
into fragments under Libyan rulers, and the Kushites extended their
control north of Thebes, the cult center of the god Amun in
Egypt, who was also the most favored deity of Kush. Piye, most famous
of Kush's pharaohs, united the Nile Valley from the
Mediterranean to Meroe, creating one of Africa's greatest states. He
and his successors are known as Egypt's Twenty-fifth
Dynasty. One, Taharqo, was a great builder, and the Kushite rulers led
Egypt to its last age of outstanding achievement, which
reached its peak in the sixth century B.C. But when Kush tried to stop
the westward advance of Assyria in Asia, Taharqo and
his successor Tanutamani were defeated and expelled from Egypt by 650
B.C. In Nubia and Sudan, Kush continued to be a
major state for a thousand years.
Meroitic Nubia,
ca. 200 B.C.- A.D. 300
The actual capital of Kush was established at Meroe quite early even
though its rulers built pyramids near Napata until about
300 B.C. Meroe became a great city of large industrial complexes and
great temples, with an inner city that contained palaces,
a shrine with a large pool and columns that spouted water, and even an
observatory. Numerous important centers were
founded in the Isle of Meroe, and great temple complexes dedicated to
gods with both Egyptian and Meroitic names. The most
important Meroitic deity was Apedemak, usually shown with a lion's
head, who became one of the greatest state gods. The
outstanding Meroitic industry known to us is iron. The site of Meroe
still contains large heaps of slag, and recent excavations
have unearthed parts of the furnaces used to smelt the metal.
Figure 5: Decoration from a ring-bezel shows the Meroitic lion god
Apedemak. Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition.
In the north, Meroitic policy had been to assist revolts in Upper
Egypt against foreign rulers, such as Persians, the Macedonian
Ptolemies, and Romans. After an agreement with Rome just after 23
B.C., Meroitic settlers were able to live close to Aswan,
beginning a new era of prosperity in Lower Nubia. Wealth derived from
trade made possible some of Nubia's most delightful
achievements in arts and crafts. The culture, like that of Kush's main
center at Meroe, was pharaonic, and the representations
on pottery and small objects were made in accordance with the what was
considered proper in that tradition. These Meroites
of Lower Nubia also constructed small brick pyramids, and equipped
their chapels with stone sculptures and inscribed
monuments.
X-Group Nubia
The Blemmyes, ca A.D. 250-500
The Noubadian Kingdom,
ca. A.D. 350-550
With the Roman world in turmoil, and Meroe in decline, a people from
east of the Nile known to the Greeks as Blemmyes and
to the Arabs as Bedja, rapidly overran much of Egypt and Lower Nubia.
Although expelled from Egypt, they were able to
establish themselves in the region of Nubia just south of Aswan.
Although they continued the religion of the pharaohs, their
rulers used the Greek forms of contemporary Roman Imperial titles. The
Oriental Institute excavated near Kalabsha and
recovered many fragments of decoration from one of the Blemmyes' most
important holy places, as well as pieces of their
unusual and beautiful pottery.
Figure 6: A beautifully carved sandstone incense burner found near the
main shrine of the Blemmyes has alternating lotus
flowers and buds in carved relief, a symbol of creation. Oriental
Institute Nubian Expedition.
South of the Blemmyes, the Meroitic province of Lower Nubia collapsed
by about A. D. 300, and by 375, the kingdom of the
Noubades, now known as Nubians was established with its capital near
the modern Sudanese Border. Great mound-tombs of
its kings at Qustul and Ballana contained much wealth, in crowns,
jewels, and great weapons, including long African
spear-swords, now in the Cairo Museum. The Oriental Institute's own
excavations there discovered that the tumuli themselves
were only part of larger complexes of chapels and sacrificial pits.
Like the Meroitic rulers they supplanted, the Noubadians
used pharaonic symbols and worshipped ancient gods. They joined with
the Blemmyes in attacks on Upper Egypt in defense of
the old religion against the newly dominant Christianity.
Christian Nubia, ca. A.D. 550-1400
Nubia first became Christian in the time of the Roman emperor
Justinian, but soon after, the Moslem Arabs conquered Egypt,
and the Nubians were isolated from direct contact with the Christian
world north of the Mediterranean. Early attempts at
Moslem conquest in Nubia failed, allowing various Christian kingdoms
of Nubia to remain independent for centuries, and they
even had a profitable treaty arrangement with the Caliph. At times,
Christian Nubia became quite powerful and was able to
intervene on behalf of the Coptic Christians in Egypt and even to hold
territory. In the twelfth century, under Saladin, and later,
under the Mamelukes, the power of Christian Nubia was broken by a
series of campaigns and invasions of Arab tribes. By
1400, Christian Nubia had disappeared. Nubians are now virtually all
Moslem.
Figure 7: Jar fragments from the later Christian Period that were
painted in black with intricate geometric designs. Oriental
Institute Nubian Expedition.
The conversion to Christianity was a major stimulus to cultural
achievement. Christianity required churches, written texts, in
Greek, Egyptian Coptic and in Old Nubian, as well as educational and
inspirational decoration. The Christian images and
symbols were drawn largely from traditions developed in Egypt and the
Mediterranean world, but Nubian artists and architects
added details, designs, combinations, and proportions of their own to
establish a unique formal art. Some of the greatest
paintings of the Middle Ages were made on the walls of the Cathedral
at Faras and rescued by a Polish expedition for the
Museums of Khartoum and Warsaw. The Oriental Institute excavated a
major monastery at Qasr el Wizz, and a large town at
Serra East, which contained churches with frescoes that could be
copied, but were too damaged to remove. Much architectural
information was recovered, along with objects from daily life,
including superbly painted pottery which was, as so often before,
the glory of Nubia.
RETURN TO NUBIAN EXPEDITION
RETURN TO ORIENTAL INSTITUTE MUSEUM
Revised: June 2, 1998
http://www.oi.uchicago.edu/OI/PROJ/NUB/NUBX/NUBX_brochure.html
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-16 00:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Genetics may have some basis in science, but the developers of the science
are also the ones to give names to the markers. Who's is to say that most
of the Caucasian markers are not really African markers? The point is, when
you run the show and come up with the rules, you can twist them around to
suit yourself, as many would. I would say more, but I am not in the mood to
type.
--
This site is something else! www.unclet.netfirms.com
Post by Blue Men of Morocco
As I mentioned earlier, I would try to track down what I had been told about
the origins of the Berbers (coming from Europe)-
this is what my source emailed me"......I had read in one of the five or six
books that we had purchased on Morocco before our trip that stated that
there were no historical records indicating where the Berbers had
originated. However, a geneticist had completed a significant amount of
research indicating a genetic link with people of the Caucasus, a mountain
range in Southwestern Russia (actually considered to be Southeastern
European Russia, per Webster's Dictionary). The people that originated from
the Caucasus are known as Caucasian, an ethnic division that covers everyone
from India (I think) to Western/Northern Europe. Unfortunately I don't
have any of the books left......."
Perhaps someone has more information from the mentioned source,.
E. Elena Hall, Co
Director Blue Men of Morocco Co.
Visit us in Morocco! http://www.bluemenofmorocco.com
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:16:57 GMT, "Jason Murray - The Great One"
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
While whites are steady
trying to prove how white clearly black Egyptians were, they say next to
nothing about a people who were supposed to have truly been of white
origins.
Meanwhile, you say next to nothing about the fact that niggers weren't
NUBIANS (a.k.a. Cushites)
Nubia, or Cush, is an ancient region of North Africa comprising
modern-day Southern Egypt and the Northern parts of Sudan and
Ethiopia. All of the cultures from that region, including Upper Egypt,
the Kingdom of Da'amat and the Aksum Empire, were created
by people who spoke Afro-Asiatic languages, that is, Hamito-Semitic,
Caucasoid people, not blacks: "The Hamitic subfamily is
generally considered to include ancient Egyptian and its descendant,
Coptic; the Berber languages; and the Cushitic languages."
(The Columbia Encyclopedia: Sixth Edition, Hamito-Semitic languages)
An article from Encyclopedia Britannica called History of Ethiopia
reiterates this linguistic connection between Nubia and the
Mediterranean, and elaborates on its cultural extentions with regard
"...an ancient tongue spoken in this region [Nubia] fissured into
the modern languages of the Afro-Asiatic (formerly
Hamito-Semitic) family. This family includes the Cushitic and
Semitic languages now spoken in Ethiopia."
"During the 2nd millennium BC...a people speaking Ge'ez (a
Semitic language) came to dominate the rich northern
highlands of Tigray. There, in the 7th century BC, they
established the kingdom of Da'amat."
"Aksum's culture comprised Ge'ez, written in a modified South
Arabian alphabet, sculpture and architecture based on
South Arabian prototypes, and an amalgam of local and Middle
Eastern dieties. Thus, evidence exists of a close
cultural exchange between Aksum and the Arabian peninsula...."
Certainly Nubians must have come into contact with black Africans to
the south, especially with the expansion of Aksum, and no
doubt even incorporated them into their societies, as much of their
art suggests, but the original Nubians themselves were
Caucasian.
ORIENTAL INSTITUTE MUSEUM
NUBIA - "Its glory and its people"
1987 EXHIBITION: BROCHURE
FEBRUARY 1 thru 28, 1987
THE ORIENTAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
and the OAK WOODS CEMETERY ASSOCIATION
In the Tower of Memories, Oak Woods Cemetery,
Chicago
By BRUCE WILLIAMS, Research Associate
Exhibition Brochure Cover
Exhibition Credits
Exhibition Introduction
To the ancient Mediterranean world, the land south of Egypt was a
territory of mystery and legend. Wealth and exotic products
came from there. It was the home of the Ethiopians, whom Homer called
blameless and stories about its great achievements
endured to tantalize the modern world. This land, which now includes
Nubia, is a land of enormous distances, and its
exploration was long impeded by problems of transport and political
unrest. In the last hundred years, Nubia has slowly yielded
its secrets, its vanished peoples, abandoned cities and lost kingdoms
brought to light by the excavator and copyist of
inscriptions. This exhibit is a selection of objects recovered over
twenty years ago by the Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition in
the effort to rescue archaeology from the rising water behind the
Aswan Dam.
The land of Nubia is a desert divided by the river Nile. For want of
water and rich soil, most of Nubia has never been able to
support a large population for long periods. However, some of Africa's
greatest civilizations emerged here, centers of
achievement whose existence was based on industry and trade. Because
they did not write their own languages until very late in
ancient times, we know these centers and their people largely through
their archaeology and what the Egyptians and Greeks
said about them.
The A-Group,
3800-3100 B.C.
The first continuous agricultural tradition in Africa, the
Sudanese-Saharan Neolithic, developed almost ten thousand years ago
in country west of Nubia that is now desert.
The Nile Valley in Egypt had been inhospitable, but in the seasonally
dry channels of the Second Cataract, early farmers
learned to manage parts of the river's annual flood. This knowledge
could then be applied in Egypt's wide floodplain, giving rise
to the great sequence of Upper Egypt's early civilizations.
Upper Egypt soon grew wealthy and its culture expanded again into
Nubia, where renewed southern contacts gave rise to the
first of Nubia's trading cultures, called the A-Group. Incense,
copper, gold, objects of shell, and semiprecious stones were
traded northward in return for manufactured articles and probably
agricultural produce.
Most surprising, evidence that early pharaohs ruled in A-Group Nubia
was discovered by the Oriental Institute at Qustul,
almost at the modern Sudanese border. A cemetery of large tombs
contained evidence of wealth and representations of the
rulers and their victories. Other representations and monuments could
then be identified, and in the process, a lost kingdom,
called Ta-Seti or Land of the Bow, was discovered. In fact, the
cemetery at Qustul leads directly to the first great royal
monuments of Egypt in a progression. Qustul in Nubia could well have
been the seat of Egypt's founding dynasty.
Figure 1: The decoration of the Qustul Incense Burner, as restored. A
sacrificial procession contains the earliest definite image
of a pharaoh with his crown and falcon-label. Oriental Institute
Nubian Expedition.
The Land of Wawat: C-Group Lower Nubia,
2300-1550 B.C.
Life in Nubia between 3100 and about 2300 B. C. differed greatly from
the prosperous times of A-Group. We know of only a
few inhabitants and one substantial town, where copper was smelted for
export.
About 2300 B.C., during the Egyptian Sixth Dynasty, a new culture
appeared, which archaeologists call C-Group. Cattle
played an important role in this culture, as they have in many other
African societies since. Nevertheless, the C-Group was
settled permanently along the Nile, from Aswan to the Second Cataract,
and a closely related culture was established in
northern Sudan, especially at Kerma, south of the Third Cataract. As
Egypt fragmented politically, C-Group people entered the
country to the north, as herdsmen and soldiers. They sometimes rose
very high in Egyptian society and they played an important
role in the struggles that founded the Egyptian Middle Kingdom, about
2050 B.C.
Figure 2: One of the finest C-Group incised bowls is decorated with a
herd of cattle. Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition.
From biographies of Egyptian governors at Aswan, about 2300 B. C., we
learn that the peoples to the south were
concentrated in four principalities. One, Wawat, later gave its name
to all of Lower Nubia, the land between the First and the
Second Cataracts. Another, Yam, may have been a predecessor of Kush.
In the Egyptian period of disunity, about 2250 B.
C., Lower Nubia had its own pharaohs.
C-Group is well known for its tightly packed cemeteries of high stone
circles. Next to these circles were placed stelae, some
with pictures of cattle incised on them, and pottery, some of Nubia's
finest art. Three major cemeteries and a house of this
culture were excavated by the Oriental Institute at Adindan and Serra
East.
Kerma and the Rise of Kush,
ca. 2000-1550 B. C.
Egypt conquered Lower Nubia about 1950 B. C., and retained it until
about 1700. C-Group kept its cultural identity under
Egyptian rule, but the land of Kush to the south and the Medjay people
of the Eastern Desert remained independent. Kush,
much influenced by the Medjay, became a major power in the south, and
as Egypt fell into disunity again, about 1700 B. C.,
Kush took over Lower Nubia with its C-Group population and Egyptian
garrisons. The allegiance of people and soldiers was
transferred to the southern ruler who was represented as a pharaoh.
Most archaeology of the Kerma culture or early Kush is found south of
the Second Cataract, especially at the great capital at
Kerma, with its central temples, elaborate smelter, manufacturing
installations, houses and enormous royal mound tombs. Its
magnificent pottery was sometimes exported as far north as the
Egyptian Delta, and sometimes carried north by travelling
officials and soldiers.
The Ages of Egyptian Occupation
The Middle Kingdom,
1950-1700 B. C.
The New Kingdom,
1550-1 100 B.C.
The two periods of Egyptian rule in Nubia were quite different. In the
Middle Kingdom, Egyptian garrisons occupied fortresses
and the native C-Group peoples were not profoundly changed by the
imperial occupation.
Figure 3: Ruins of the temple of Soleb, one of New Kingdom Nubia's
greatest monuments. Photo by Breasted.
After the terrible struggles that ended Egypt's Second Intermediate
Period, objects and many local customs became practically
indistinguishable from those of Egypt. Much that underlay the
tremendous elaboration of Egypt must have been present long
before in Nubia, for the rapid, sympathetic, and understanding
adoption of Egyptian culture in Nubia is unique in the ancient
world. Egypt invested heavily in this change, building numerous temple
complexes such as Abu Simbel that were at once
centers of religion, culture, politics, and economy. In later
centuries, this investment bore fruit as Nubia championed the
pharaonic faith against forces of disruption, conquest and foreign
rule in the Nile Valley again and again.
Figure 4: The view looking south from Abu Simbel, great rock-cut
temple of Ramesses II, before it was moved. Photo by
Breasted.
The Empire of Kush
Between 1100 and 750 B.C., little is known of Nubia, but after 750, a
new Kushite kingdom appeared at Napata near the
Fourth Cataract and rapidly expanded into a huge empire. To the south,
Meroe was founded. To the north, Egypt had fallen
into fragments under Libyan rulers, and the Kushites extended their
control north of Thebes, the cult center of the god Amun in
Egypt, who was also the most favored deity of Kush. Piye, most famous
of Kush's pharaohs, united the Nile Valley from the
Mediterranean to Meroe, creating one of Africa's greatest states. He
and his successors are known as Egypt's Twenty-fifth
Dynasty. One, Taharqo, was a great builder, and the Kushite rulers led
Egypt to its last age of outstanding achievement, which
reached its peak in the sixth century B.C. But when Kush tried to stop
the westward advance of Assyria in Asia, Taharqo and
his successor Tanutamani were defeated and expelled from Egypt by 650
B.C. In Nubia and Sudan, Kush continued to be a
major state for a thousand years.
Meroitic Nubia,
ca. 200 B.C.- A.D. 300
The actual capital of Kush was established at Meroe quite early even
though its rulers built pyramids near Napata until about
300 B.C. Meroe became a great city of large industrial complexes and
great temples, with an inner city that contained palaces,
a shrine with a large pool and columns that spouted water, and even an
observatory. Numerous important centers were
founded in the Isle of Meroe, and great temple complexes dedicated to
gods with both Egyptian and Meroitic names. The most
important Meroitic deity was Apedemak, usually shown with a lion's
head, who became one of the greatest state gods. The
outstanding Meroitic industry known to us is iron. The site of Meroe
still contains large heaps of slag, and recent excavations
have unearthed parts of the furnaces used to smelt the metal.
Figure 5: Decoration from a ring-bezel shows the Meroitic lion god
Apedemak. Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition.
In the north, Meroitic policy had been to assist revolts in Upper
Egypt against foreign rulers, such as Persians, the Macedonian
Ptolemies, and Romans. After an agreement with Rome just after 23
B.C., Meroitic settlers were able to live close to Aswan,
beginning a new era of prosperity in Lower Nubia. Wealth derived from
trade made possible some of Nubia's most delightful
achievements in arts and crafts. The culture, like that of Kush's main
center at Meroe, was pharaonic, and the representations
on pottery and small objects were made in accordance with the what was
considered proper in that tradition. These Meroites
of Lower Nubia also constructed small brick pyramids, and equipped
their chapels with stone sculptures and inscribed
monuments.
X-Group Nubia
The Blemmyes, ca A.D. 250-500
The Noubadian Kingdom,
ca. A.D. 350-550
With the Roman world in turmoil, and Meroe in decline, a people from
east of the Nile known to the Greeks as Blemmyes and
to the Arabs as Bedja, rapidly overran much of Egypt and Lower Nubia.
Although expelled from Egypt, they were able to
establish themselves in the region of Nubia just south of Aswan.
Although they continued the religion of the pharaohs, their
rulers used the Greek forms of contemporary Roman Imperial titles. The
Oriental Institute excavated near Kalabsha and
recovered many fragments of decoration from one of the Blemmyes' most
important holy places, as well as pieces of their
unusual and beautiful pottery.
Figure 6: A beautifully carved sandstone incense burner found near the
main shrine of the Blemmyes has alternating lotus
flowers and buds in carved relief, a symbol of creation. Oriental
Institute Nubian Expedition.
South of the Blemmyes, the Meroitic province of Lower Nubia collapsed
by about A. D. 300, and by 375, the kingdom of the
Noubades, now known as Nubians was established with its capital near
the modern Sudanese Border. Great mound-tombs of
its kings at Qustul and Ballana contained much wealth, in crowns,
jewels, and great weapons, including long African
spear-swords, now in the Cairo Museum. The Oriental Institute's own
excavations there discovered that the tumuli themselves
were only part of larger complexes of chapels and sacrificial pits.
Like the Meroitic rulers they supplanted, the Noubadians
used pharaonic symbols and worshipped ancient gods. They joined with
the Blemmyes in attacks on Upper Egypt in defense of
the old religion against the newly dominant Christianity.
Christian Nubia, ca. A.D. 550-1400
Nubia first became Christian in the time of the Roman emperor
Justinian, but soon after, the Moslem Arabs conquered Egypt,
and the Nubians were isolated from direct contact with the Christian
world north of the Mediterranean. Early attempts at
Moslem conquest in Nubia failed, allowing various Christian kingdoms
of Nubia to remain independent for centuries, and they
even had a profitable treaty arrangement with the Caliph. At times,
Christian Nubia became quite powerful and was able to
intervene on behalf of the Coptic Christians in Egypt and even to hold
territory. In the twelfth century, under Saladin, and later,
under the Mamelukes, the power of Christian Nubia was broken by a
series of campaigns and invasions of Arab tribes. By
1400, Christian Nubia had disappeared. Nubians are now virtually all
Moslem.
Figure 7: Jar fragments from the later Christian Period that were
painted in black with intricate geometric designs. Oriental
Institute Nubian Expedition.
The conversion to Christianity was a major stimulus to cultural
achievement. Christianity required churches, written texts, in
Greek, Egyptian Coptic and in Old Nubian, as well as educational and
inspirational decoration. The Christian images and
symbols were drawn largely from traditions developed in Egypt and the
Mediterranean world, but Nubian artists and architects
added details, designs, combinations, and proportions of their own to
establish a unique formal art. Some of the greatest
paintings of the Middle Ages were made on the walls of the Cathedral
at Faras and rescued by a Polish expedition for the
Museums of Khartoum and Warsaw. The Oriental Institute excavated a
major monastery at Qasr el Wizz, and a large town at
Serra East, which contained churches with frescoes that could be
copied, but were too damaged to remove. Much architectural
information was recovered, along with objects from daily life,
including superbly painted pottery which was, as so often before,
the glory of Nubia.
RETURN TO NUBIAN EXPEDITION
RETURN TO ORIENTAL INSTITUTE MUSEUM
Revised: June 2, 1998
http://www.oi.uchicago.edu/OI/PROJ/NUB/NUBX/NUBX_brochure.html
Byker
2003-09-16 03:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
you can twist them around to
suit yourself, as many would.
You afrocentroids have done just that...
A.T. Tapman
2003-09-17 00:19:45 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:08:57 GMT, "Jason Murray - The Great One"
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Genetics may have some basis in science, but the developers of the science
are also the ones to give names to the markers. Who's is to say that most
of the Caucasian markers are not really African markers? The point is, when
you run the show and come up with the rules, you can twist them around to
suit yourself, as many would. I would say more, but I am not in the mood to
type.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you were obviously too tired to think
while crafting the above. Do you have any idea of how stupid the above
paragraph causes you to appear?


Your friend,
A.T. Tapman
The Most Favored
of Loup-Garou, who said,
"The burn-off of useless eaters will be glorious"
Eugene Holman
2003-09-20 12:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Genetics may have some basis in science, but the developers of the science
are also the ones to give names to the markers. Who's is to say that most
of the Caucasian markers are not really African markers? The point is, when
you run the show and come up with the rules, you can twist them around to
suit yourself, as many would. I would say more, but I am not in the mood to
type.
The problem is that the term "Caucasian" has two quite distinct meanings.

1. As a racial designation, "Caucasian" is a kind of a dumping ground for
people who are not Asians, Amerindians, Africans or Australian aborigines.
Thus a large swath of Eurasia ranging from Iceland to Bangladesh is
inhabited by people who belong to the group Caucasian. It includes peoples
as racially diverse as the Icelanders, the Italians, the Russians, the
Arabs, the Ashkenazic Jews, the Persians, the Turks, the Chechens, the
Gypsies, and the Ahghanis. The people who regard themselves as "White"
would not regard the majority of the racially Caucasian peoples as being
"White", and many of them they do not even recognize as them as "white".
Yasser Arafat, Eliel Sharon, and Saddam Hussein are all examples of people
who are racially Caucasian, but who would be regarded by many White
racists as non-white.

In the UK many distinguish between "browns" and "blacks", regarding the
people from the Middle East and the Indian sub-continent as "browns", that
is to say, as non-whites, Whites being understood there solely to mean
people of north-western European origin. The old saw, "Wogs start at
Calais", meaning people who are Caucasion, white, but not White, start at
the French border, is a succinct admission that Whites are but a small
subset of Caucasiandom.

2. As a linguistic designation, "Caucasian" refers to the autochthonous
pre-Indo-European languages of the Caucasian Mountain region in
south-Western Russia. The most important language of this group is
Georgian, some of the others are Svan, Chechen, Abkhaz, and Tabasaran.


With respect to the relevance of continent of Africa, it has never been
racially homogeneous. In the western part of the continent the
desertification of the Sahara resulted in a sharp divide between the
brownish Caucasoid peoples of the north and the far darker, but not always
black (cf. Ghanaian Kofi Annan), Negroid peoples of the sub-Sahara. In
eastern Africa the situation has long been quite different, with the
Caucasoid peoples of the north gradually blending into the Negroid peoples
further south, with the Somalis and Eritrians being transitional between
the two races. Genetics tells us that the present situation is the result
of two historical factors. On the one hand the more Negroid peoples of the
south moved gradually northwards as the lower (northern) reaches of the
Nile Valley, on the other hand Caucasoid peoples from the Arabian
Peninsula to the East also moved in, gradually working their way
southwards. Interaction between the two groups over the millennia assumed
many forms, and the eventual result, further modified by later infusions
of Caucasoid poeples from Persia, Greece, and Rome, was a racial
continuum, with people of Levantine Caucasoid type dominating in
northernmost Egypt, with the frequency of people with more Negroid traits
becoming more frequent the further south one moves.

Thus, present-day Egypt is a mixed-race society, where Caucasian types
dominate in the north, where the most important cities are, but Negroid
types dominate in the southern part of the country. Those wanting to claim
the Egypt is and always has been "White" have to explain why they would
not accept prominent Egyptian personalities such as Gamel Nasser, Hosni
Mubarak, or Anwar Sadat as "White" or, in the case of Sadat, even "white".

To my mind Egypt serves as an excellent case study of the arbitrartiness
of traditional racial classifiations: its civilization has African roots,
and those who presently bear it represent the two racial groups that have
always shared Africa. It is just as factually incorrect to claim that the
Egyptians were "black" as it is to claim that they were "white". The claim
that the ancient Egyptians were "Indo-European Proto-Vikings who spoke a
Caucasian language" has to be assigned to its own class of unique
absurdity.

Regards,
Eugene Holman
B9
2003-09-20 14:18:09 UTC
Permalink
Genetics may have some basis in science, but ...
Who's is to say that most
of the Caucasian markers are not really African markers?
In Reply to: WORLD POLITICS AND THE NEGRO posted by Ghoncheh on
Yes. The Negro has been enslaved, casterated and now the little riches
he has are being stolen by his friends who tell him that ancient
Egyptians were Negros and the first person was a Negro.
WORLD POLITICS AND THE NEGRO
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Dr. Ali Shariati's Forum ] [ FAQ ]
THE WEST HAS GOT TOGETHER TO USE THE NEGRO AND AFRICA. AFRICA
IS BEING TOLD IT IS THE CRADLE OF MAN AND ALL THE RESOURCES
THEN BEING TAKEN. NO CREATURE IS AS SIMPLE AS THE NEGRO. IN IRAN
WE MUST BE CAREFUL THAT THE FAKE GENETIC DATA DOES NOT GET IN
(BY REPEATED BOMBARDMENTS) SO THAT SOME FOOLS MIGHT
ACTUALLY START TO BELIEVE THEY ARE NEGROS.
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Dr. Ali Shariati's Forum ] [ FAQ ]
In Reply to: HOW TO BE A NIGGER posted by DAN FESTLER on April 06,
It is clear there ia a deal been struck to make the Nigger an ancestor
of us the mghty Persians. Guess what we know it so it is doomed fail.
Re: HOW TO BE A NIGGER
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Dr. Ali Shariati's Forum ] [ FAQ ]
In Reply to: HOW TO BE A NIGGER posted by DAN FESTLER on April 06,
The west us made a deal with the Nigger to make all people of Iran as
descendents of the Nigger. They think us fools and that we will take
the bait. Also all great kings are being made to look like Niggers.
And the silly negroes in America wannabe muslims because they think
muslims will accept them as equals...BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Niggers are hated EVERYWHERE by EVERYBODY.
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-21 03:06:04 UTC
Permalink
Sounds intelligent, so it may appear to be correct to the common sucker, but
it is wrong, dead wrong. Caucasion is not a race, so how come it is the
only so-called race that includes people who do not even look alike? How
come it includes blacks and whites? How come the blacks have to include
'certain' blacks only while the 'special' blacks have to be white?
Mongoloids are one general type and they look alike. WHy such extreme
exceptions of the white people?

I'll tell you whyit's because they want to claim that they are supreme and
if others began world history, then the white claim is BS. As it already.
Post by Eugene Holman
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Genetics may have some basis in science, but the developers of the science
are also the ones to give names to the markers. Who's is to say that most
of the Caucasian markers are not really African markers? The point is, when
you run the show and come up with the rules, you can twist them around to
suit yourself, as many would. I would say more, but I am not in the mood to
type.
The problem is that the term "Caucasian" has two quite distinct meanings.
1. As a racial designation, "Caucasian" is a kind of a dumping ground for
people who are not Asians, Amerindians, Africans or Australian aborigines.
Thus a large swath of Eurasia ranging from Iceland to Bangladesh is
inhabited by people who belong to the group Caucasian. It includes peoples
as racially diverse as the Icelanders, the Italians, the Russians, the
Arabs, the Ashkenazic Jews, the Persians, the Turks, the Chechens, the
Gypsies, and the Ahghanis. The people who regard themselves as "White"
would not regard the majority of the racially Caucasian peoples as being
"White", and many of them they do not even recognize as them as "white".
Yasser Arafat, Eliel Sharon, and Saddam Hussein are all examples of people
who are racially Caucasian, but who would be regarded by many White
racists as non-white.
In the UK many distinguish between "browns" and "blacks", regarding the
people from the Middle East and the Indian sub-continent as "browns", that
is to say, as non-whites, Whites being understood there solely to mean
people of north-western European origin. The old saw, "Wogs start at
Calais", meaning people who are Caucasion, white, but not White, start at
the French border, is a succinct admission that Whites are but a small
subset of Caucasiandom.
2. As a linguistic designation, "Caucasian" refers to the autochthonous
pre-Indo-European languages of the Caucasian Mountain region in
south-Western Russia. The most important language of this group is
Georgian, some of the others are Svan, Chechen, Abkhaz, and Tabasaran.
With respect to the relevance of continent of Africa, it has never been
racially homogeneous. In the western part of the continent the
desertification of the Sahara resulted in a sharp divide between the
brownish Caucasoid peoples of the north and the far darker, but not always
black (cf. Ghanaian Kofi Annan), Negroid peoples of the sub-Sahara. In
eastern Africa the situation has long been quite different, with the
Caucasoid peoples of the north gradually blending into the Negroid peoples
further south, with the Somalis and Eritrians being transitional between
the two races. Genetics tells us that the present situation is the result
of two historical factors. On the one hand the more Negroid peoples of the
south moved gradually northwards as the lower (northern) reaches of the
Nile Valley, on the other hand Caucasoid peoples from the Arabian
Peninsula to the East also moved in, gradually working their way
southwards. Interaction between the two groups over the millennia assumed
many forms, and the eventual result, further modified by later infusions
of Caucasoid poeples from Persia, Greece, and Rome, was a racial
continuum, with people of Levantine Caucasoid type dominating in
northernmost Egypt, with the frequency of people with more Negroid traits
becoming more frequent the further south one moves.
Thus, present-day Egypt is a mixed-race society, where Caucasian types
dominate in the north, where the most important cities are, but Negroid
types dominate in the southern part of the country. Those wanting to claim
the Egypt is and always has been "White" have to explain why they would
not accept prominent Egyptian personalities such as Gamel Nasser, Hosni
Mubarak, or Anwar Sadat as "White" or, in the case of Sadat, even "white".
To my mind Egypt serves as an excellent case study of the arbitrartiness
of traditional racial classifiations: its civilization has African roots,
and those who presently bear it represent the two racial groups that have
always shared Africa. It is just as factually incorrect to claim that the
Egyptians were "black" as it is to claim that they were "white". The claim
that the ancient Egyptians were "Indo-European Proto-Vikings who spoke a
Caucasian language" has to be assigned to its own class of unique
absurdity.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-21 05:12:47 UTC
Permalink
Usual cop out.
Post by Eugene Holman
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Genetics may have some basis in science, but the developers of the science
are also the ones to give names to the markers. Who's is to say that most
of the Caucasian markers are not really African markers? The point is, when
you run the show and come up with the rules, you can twist them around to
suit yourself, as many would. I would say more, but I am not in the mood to
type.
The problem is that the term "Caucasian" has two quite distinct meanings.
1. As a racial designation, "Caucasian" is a kind of a dumping ground for
people who are not Asians, Amerindians, Africans or Australian aborigines.
Thus a large swath of Eurasia ranging from Iceland to Bangladesh is
inhabited by people who belong to the group Caucasian. It includes peoples
as racially diverse as the Icelanders, the Italians, the Russians, the
Arabs, the Ashkenazic Jews, the Persians, the Turks, the Chechens, the
Gypsies, and the Ahghanis. The people who regard themselves as "White"
would not regard the majority of the racially Caucasian peoples as being
"White", and many of them they do not even recognize as them as "white".
Yasser Arafat, Eliel Sharon, and Saddam Hussein are all examples of people
who are racially Caucasian, but who would be regarded by many White
racists as non-white.
In the UK many distinguish between "browns" and "blacks", regarding the
people from the Middle East and the Indian sub-continent as "browns", that
is to say, as non-whites, Whites being understood there solely to mean
people of north-western European origin. The old saw, "Wogs start at
Calais", meaning people who are Caucasion, white, but not White, start at
the French border, is a succinct admission that Whites are but a small
subset of Caucasiandom.
2. As a linguistic designation, "Caucasian" refers to the autochthonous
pre-Indo-European languages of the Caucasian Mountain region in
south-Western Russia. The most important language of this group is
Georgian, some of the others are Svan, Chechen, Abkhaz, and Tabasaran.
With respect to the relevance of continent of Africa, it has never been
racially homogeneous. In the western part of the continent the
desertification of the Sahara resulted in a sharp divide between the
brownish Caucasoid peoples of the north and the far darker, but not always
black (cf. Ghanaian Kofi Annan), Negroid peoples of the sub-Sahara. In
eastern Africa the situation has long been quite different, with the
Caucasoid peoples of the north gradually blending into the Negroid peoples
further south, with the Somalis and Eritrians being transitional between
the two races. Genetics tells us that the present situation is the result
of two historical factors. On the one hand the more Negroid peoples of the
south moved gradually northwards as the lower (northern) reaches of the
Nile Valley, on the other hand Caucasoid peoples from the Arabian
Peninsula to the East also moved in, gradually working their way
southwards. Interaction between the two groups over the millennia assumed
many forms, and the eventual result, further modified by later infusions
of Caucasoid poeples from Persia, Greece, and Rome, was a racial
continuum, with people of Levantine Caucasoid type dominating in
northernmost Egypt, with the frequency of people with more Negroid traits
becoming more frequent the further south one moves.
Thus, present-day Egypt is a mixed-race society, where Caucasian types
dominate in the north, where the most important cities are, but Negroid
types dominate in the southern part of the country. Those wanting to claim
the Egypt is and always has been "White" have to explain why they would
not accept prominent Egyptian personalities such as Gamel Nasser, Hosni
Mubarak, or Anwar Sadat as "White" or, in the case of Sadat, even "white".
To my mind Egypt serves as an excellent case study of the arbitrartiness
of traditional racial classifiations: its civilization has African roots,
and those who presently bear it represent the two racial groups that have
always shared Africa. It is just as factually incorrect to claim that the
Egyptians were "black" as it is to claim that they were "white". The claim
that the ancient Egyptians were "Indo-European Proto-Vikings who spoke a
Caucasian language" has to be assigned to its own class of unique
absurdity.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
wgodfrey
2003-09-22 21:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Usual cop out.
Yours is the usual cop-out. You don't know enough on the subjects you talk
about and all you can do is make ad hominem arguments when you don't like.

When people like you give the impression that you are representative of all
USA black people you do a great deal of harm.
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Post by Eugene Holman
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Genetics may have some basis in science, but the developers of the
science
Post by Eugene Holman
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
are also the ones to give names to the markers. Who's is to say that
most
Post by Eugene Holman
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
of the Caucasian markers are not really African markers? The point is,
when
Post by Eugene Holman
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
you run the show and come up with the rules, you can twist them around
to
Post by Eugene Holman
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
suit yourself, as many would. I would say more, but I am not in the
mood to
Post by Eugene Holman
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
type.
The problem is that the term "Caucasian" has two quite distinct meanings.
1. As a racial designation, "Caucasian" is a kind of a dumping ground for
people who are not Asians, Amerindians, Africans or Australian aborigines.
Thus a large swath of Eurasia ranging from Iceland to Bangladesh is
inhabited by people who belong to the group Caucasian. It includes peoples
as racially diverse as the Icelanders, the Italians, the Russians, the
Arabs, the Ashkenazic Jews, the Persians, the Turks, the Chechens, the
Gypsies, and the Ahghanis. The people who regard themselves as "White"
would not regard the majority of the racially Caucasian peoples as being
"White", and many of them they do not even recognize as them as "white".
Yasser Arafat, Eliel Sharon, and Saddam Hussein are all examples of people
who are racially Caucasian, but who would be regarded by many White
racists as non-white.
In the UK many distinguish between "browns" and "blacks", regarding the
people from the Middle East and the Indian sub-continent as "browns", that
is to say, as non-whites, Whites being understood there solely to mean
people of north-western European origin. The old saw, "Wogs start at
Calais", meaning people who are Caucasion, white, but not White, start at
the French border, is a succinct admission that Whites are but a small
subset of Caucasiandom.
2. As a linguistic designation, "Caucasian" refers to the autochthonous
pre-Indo-European languages of the Caucasian Mountain region in
south-Western Russia. The most important language of this group is
Georgian, some of the others are Svan, Chechen, Abkhaz, and Tabasaran.
With respect to the relevance of continent of Africa, it has never been
racially homogeneous. In the western part of the continent the
desertification of the Sahara resulted in a sharp divide between the
brownish Caucasoid peoples of the north and the far darker, but not always
black (cf. Ghanaian Kofi Annan), Negroid peoples of the sub-Sahara. In
eastern Africa the situation has long been quite different, with the
Caucasoid peoples of the north gradually blending into the Negroid peoples
further south, with the Somalis and Eritrians being transitional between
the two races. Genetics tells us that the present situation is the result
of two historical factors. On the one hand the more Negroid peoples of the
south moved gradually northwards as the lower (northern) reaches of the
Nile Valley, on the other hand Caucasoid peoples from the Arabian
Peninsula to the East also moved in, gradually working their way
southwards. Interaction between the two groups over the millennia assumed
many forms, and the eventual result, further modified by later infusions
of Caucasoid poeples from Persia, Greece, and Rome, was a racial
continuum, with people of Levantine Caucasoid type dominating in
northernmost Egypt, with the frequency of people with more Negroid traits
becoming more frequent the further south one moves.
Thus, present-day Egypt is a mixed-race society, where Caucasian types
dominate in the north, where the most important cities are, but Negroid
types dominate in the southern part of the country. Those wanting to claim
the Egypt is and always has been "White" have to explain why they would
not accept prominent Egyptian personalities such as Gamel Nasser, Hosni
Mubarak, or Anwar Sadat as "White" or, in the case of Sadat, even "white".
To my mind Egypt serves as an excellent case study of the arbitrartiness
of traditional racial classifiations: its civilization has African roots,
and those who presently bear it represent the two racial groups that have
always shared Africa. It is just as factually incorrect to claim that the
Egyptians were "black" as it is to claim that they were "white". The claim
that the ancient Egyptians were "Indo-European Proto-Vikings who spoke a
Caucasian language" has to be assigned to its own class of unique
absurdity.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
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